Forum:Agatha and Gil are NOT Leia and Luke!
The Foglios said so (meta). The story is pretty straightforward about whose parents are whose (canon). It's strongly suggested that the two of them are/will be a couple (noincestplz). People, however, keep revisiting this, ad nauseam. Corgi 09:45, 6 March 2008 (UTC) ::Zo! Hit iz Agatha und Tarvek dot iz "Leia und Luke, ya? Dot's vat Zola seems to hint in last panel here! ::Altgorl 04:40, 8 April 2009 (UTC) ::: Well... maybe... in the sense that Lucrezia (or her father) may have used some of the same genetic material in creating both of them. Tarvek does seem to have a bit of the ability to produce Heterodyne music, so maybe that's a clue. Nekokami 15:58, 8 April 2009 (UTC) : For serious. The Jaegers would absolutely know if there was any Heterodyne in the Wulfenbach, Klaus would certainly have used any such relationship he knew about to try to dissuade Gil by now, and as for the Mongfish angle... I'm reminded of Carson's , only even more so. - Acacia 09:57, 6 March 2008 (UTC) :Since the only way they could be siblings is by Klaus, that would mean that Agatha was not a Heterodyne, which is too silly a story turn to even ponder. --mnenyver 19:49, 6 March 2008 (UTC) ::Particularly since at least part of the Castle has tested her blood and decided she IS a Heterodyne. :If this was an open question, Klaus isn't the only (or even most likely) choice for the common parent - Lucrezia is. She and Klaus were involved (to the point there were suspicions about the parentage of Klaus Barry Heterodyne, despite the dates), so if Gil was were born prior to her marriage and then later retrieved by Klaus from wherever he was being kept, this would make them siblings without any change in heterodynity. Pham nuwen 12:26, 17 February 2009 (UTC) ::Excuse me, but this is not a very likely suggestion... Lucrezia had just accepted Bill Heterodyne´s marriage proposal. First of all,she wouldn´t have jeopardized that by having Klaus´ kid (much less after Klaus disappeared without explanation), and second, don´t you think *somebody* would have mentioned there being a half-brother to the Heterodyne heir, one who shared Lucrezia´s command voice? Von Pinn at least would have recognized any child of Lucrezia´s, the way she recognized Agatha. Third and last, Lucrezia being Gil´s mom would not explain the Skifandrian death sentence against Gil, while a Skifandrian being his mom *would* explain it. -Sir Chaos 19:27, 17 February 2009 (UTC) :::Klaus and Lucrezia were sleeping together before Bill proposed - that can lead to pregnancy. If she found she was pregnant with Klaus's kid, I think she'd probably have it in secret before the wedding (probably even stashing it the same place she hid Klaus, thus explaining how Klaus came by him when he escaped). It seems likely that having a heterodyne daughter was one of the main motives for her marriage. Klaus wasn't a Heterodyne, but he's a powerful spark - such a child would be a useful backup plan for mind transfer if the heterodyne marriage fell through. The idea of a Klaus/Lucrezia child isn't even that unusual - there was speculation about it after the birth of their first child - could this be based on earlier rumours? I don't see how a Skifandrian mother makes the death sentence any more likely, unless you make some assumptions about Skifandrian society, in which case you could just as easily make assumptions that would make them want to kill Gil for being Lucrezia's son (eg. Lucrezia's set herself up as a Goddess to a different amazonian tribe, and there is some speculation of a connection between the Skiffandrians and Geisterdamen - I can see reasons to want to kill the child of an enemy tribe's God.) Admittedly, I don't think this is very likely possibility, but it seems far more likely than that Klaus is Agatha's father, so dismissing the possibility as if that was the only possible way it could happen seems clearly wrong. After all, Gil is the one who's parentage is the big mystery (are we even certain Klaus is the father?). Agatha's parentage seems fairly certain. Pham nuwen 21:42, 21 February 2009 (UTC) :::: Those are good points and deserve more prominent mention, say on Gilgamesh Wulfenbach/Mad ⚙Zarchne 18:21, 23 February 2009 (UTC) 20:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC) Zeetha and Gil just might be fraternal twins, but since no romantic relationship between them is likely, that wouldn't even make them Leia and Luke! --Quadibloc 10:15, 6 December 2008 (UTC) :No romantic relationship between them is likely? I beg to differ! If - IF - the Storm King prophecy has to be fulfilled by Tarvek marrying Agatha, Zeetha and Gil would both be available - and they´re certainly already quarrelling like a married couple. So are Tarvek and Agatha, for that matter. -Sir Chaos 09:05, 9 February 2009 (UTC) ::The Always-keep-em-guessing Dept. would like to note that a good soap-opera, even a Spark-powered one, keeps at least two romantic options open for every (currently) living main character. It doesn't matter so much that an 'option' has the long term potential, just that it can create short-term confusion/jealousy. --DryBrook 14:35, 9 February 2009 (UTC) ::*Agatha has Gil and Tarvek and had Lars (who died less than a month ago, and whom she is clearly not over yet). ::*Tarvek has Agatha and Lucrezia and Zola and Violetta. ::*Klaus has his wife and Lucrezia. ::*Lucrezia has Klaus, Bill, (formerly) Aaronev, and Tarvek. (Whatever is Lunevka going to do without having seduction as an option? Celibacy just isn't Lu-anyone's leadership style.) ::*Zeetha has Higgs and Gil (though only if Agatha were to OK it). ::*Gil has Agatha and (maybe) Zeetha. (Frankly, Gil needs another GF to help keep the Gil-Agatha tension from resolving. Could it be whoever said "Gil! Is that you!"?) ::*Sleipnir has Theo and her betrothed. ::*The currently eligible bachelors and bachelorettes include Barry, Zola, Othar, Sanna Wilhelm, Vanamonde, Wooster, Scopes Krishnamurti, Grantz, Zulenna, Olga, Lunevka, Moloch, and Dupree (eww). Given the way Gil talked about Agatha, obsessed about Agatha when she was "dead," and shouted at Zeetha that he was in love with her, I'd say that no other relationship is terribly likely. I'd also say that, given the relationship between Agatha and Zeetha, Zeetha is about the last person I would expect to go after Gil. Zeetha's been convinced that Agatha had it bad for Gil since about , and I don't think she's the type to cut in like that. Just my two cents. 17:11, 9 February 2009 (UTC) :That bachelor(ette) list is effectively shorter than that. We don´t know if Barry is still alive; between Agatha, Klaus and the Castle Zola is unlikely to survive Vol IX; Scopes is too much of a minor character, ditto for Grantz; Zulenna would never marry outside royalty (and we don´t know for sure if Klaus actually DID revive her); we don´t know if Klaus decanted or discarded Olga (or whose brain she is currently wearing - Zulenna´s?); Lunevka is a clank and for all of Van Rijn´s genius certainly does not have the necessary plumbing for a physical relationship; and I wouldn´t wish Dupree on anyone except perhaps Othar. -Sir Chaos 18:59, 9 February 2009 (UTC) ::To be sure, some of them would face obstacles. ;-) I kind of tailored that list towards characters who might become available for a dance during Vol IX. As to the new girls, I suggest that they were given too much introduction to be benched for the remainder of the volume. How else would Prof(s). Foglio add bachelorettes? --DryBrook 21:23, 9 February 2009 (UTC) :I see you left out Violetta, Theo and Sleipnir; we also technically don´t know if Bill Heterodyne is dead, or if, should he live, Lucrezia is dead enough for him to be considered widowed. -Sir Chaos 18:59, 9 February 2009 (UTC) ::I considered those 4 to be 'claimed' at the moment and listed them up above. I limited the bachelor(ettes) to currently unclaimed characters, which, admittedly, isn't the usual distinction drawn. As to Lucrezia, there are at least 2 of her running around at the moment, so she's not all that dead; all she needs is an unoccupied flesh body and she'll be 100% available again, excepting that pesky marriage thing. --DryBrook 21:23, 9 February 2009 (UTC) :I didn´t mean to imply that Zeetha would "steal" Gil from Agatha; I just thought that, *if* Agatha were to marry someone else, he could do worse than marry her best friend - come to think of it, he originally proposed to Agatha to piss off his dad, and given what Klaus knows or suspects of Zeetha (she tried to kill him, she supports "the Other", she may have been sent to kill Gil) there is no way in the world he can piss off his old man more than by marrying Zeetha! :-D -Sir Chaos 18:59, 9 February 2009 (UTC) ::I'm firmly with Zeetha=Luke, Gil=Leia, Agatha=Han; but Zeetha and Gil don't know that yet, which leaves Gil available to Zeetha if Agatha dumps him. ::To be precise, I think Gil proposed to Agatha because he wanted to keep her safe and was already sweet on her. Annoying his father was just bonus, but boy didn't it make for a romantic proposal. --DryBrook 21:23, 9 February 2009 (UTC) :And while we´re shipping people... did anyone else get the impression that Von Zinzer and Violetta are growing a bit closer? To begin with, they have that shared experience of minionship to well-nigh suicidal sparks... -Sir Chaos 18:59, 9 February 2009 (UTC) ::Violetta and Molock are on track to end up like Abner and Pix, but where's the fun in that? --DryBrook 21:23, 9 February 2009 (UTC) :::Moloch already has a thing for Sanaa. I wonder if we'll get yet another love triangle? And you guys are going to feel soooo silly if it turns out that Gil and Zeetha are related. :) (crosses fingers, hoping) --mnenyver 21:43, 9 February 2009 (UTC) ::::Who'll feel silly? I thought DryBook's analogy "Zeetha=Luke, Gil=Leia, Agatha=Han" is reasonably apt, except that Gil and Zeetha (though presumably they don't know any better than we do) instinctively recognize themselves as siblings rather than potential mates. Maybe it's because Return of the Jedi came out before I really hit puberty, but I never got what the big deal was about a couple of kisses between Luke and Leia (one "for luck" and one to make Han jealous) except from Han's point of view. (Maybe it has something to do with the fact that of all the Star Wars characters I probably identify most with either R2-D2 or Chewbacca -- tall, furry, impossible to understand, and good with computers (and I was shorter and much less furry even in 1983.)) :::::Here's praying that Kaja reletters an Agatha panel to say, "Who's scruffy-looking?" --DryBrook 14:35, 10 February 2009 (UTC) ::::::Well, it may not be worth much, but we do have Or the preceding “I...what?!” ⚙Zarchne 22:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC) :::::The point isn't so much that Leia kissed Luke, but rather that if one only watched the first movie in the series, one would expect that Luke, as the hero, would be the one who gets the girl, with Han being a minor character in comparison. Of course, watching that movie, I expected that Obi-Wan was telling the truth about Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader. So I deplored the decision to make Vader Luke's father for a cheap thrill in ESB, and the disaster that was The Phantom Menace pretty well confirmed this fannish judgement. --Quadibloc :::::Also, Tarvek's recent attempts to give political advice to Agatha have made me wonder if, in addition to Gil and Zeetha being related leading to a "Zeetha=Luke, Agatha=Han, Gil=Leia" dynamic, we'll also see Agatha=Kirk, with Gil and Tarvek being Spock and McCoy - sources of conflicting advice to Agatha which she must judge between. Yes; why not cover both of the greatest dramatic works of Western Civilization? :) --Quadibloc 20:11, 16 February 2009 (UTC) ::::Furthermore, I agree that Violetta could be attracted to Moloch. I also like the suggestion that Zulenna could return in Olga's body. And I agree that the mystery person at the end of Vol. VIII will likely create an additional romantic option for Gil, though whether it's Zola, Wilhelm, or someone previously unnoted (lampshade girl is dead...) I don't have a strong feeling about. ::::⚙Zarchne 07:18, 10 February 2009 (UTC) Volume VIII Mystery Person And I agree that the mystery person at the end of Vol. VIII will likely create an additional romantic option for Gil... Zarchne The "mystery person" is the one who shouted "Gil? Is that you?", right? This can only be one already knows him, *and* is close enough to him to call him "Gil" rather than "Master Gilgamesh". That pretty much limits it to Klaus, Agatha or the students, of those people we know, and we know that Klaus and Agatha were elsewhere, and Sleipnir and Theo were with him. So, who is both close enough to Gil, *and* capable enough to survive in Castle Heterodyne on his/her own? -Sir Chaos 08:37, 10 February 2009 (UTC) :I'd agree that those are the two criteria for the mystery person. Since we can't seem to settle on anyone who we know fits both, it seems like there's a friendship we're unaware of or a person is inside that we didn't know about. --DryBrook 14:35, 10 February 2009 (UTC) That’s right, the “Gil? Is that you?” person. What I am suggesting is that either it is a new character, or a character who has not been seen interacting with Gil, but knew him from (most likely) Paris and then later entered Castle Heterodyne. Remember, it was not revealed that Gil was the Baron’s son (even if British Intelligence suspected it) until after he returned from Paris. There’s no reason I know of at this point why Zola couldn’t have been acquainted in an apparently friendly way with Gil from that time. Gil was not an eyewitness to Zola’s entry into the Castle. And pairing them (geographically, I mean) would make a nice symmetry with Agatha and Tarvek. Gil’s presence would prevent Zola from receiving a summary squishing, maintaining the dramatic tension. I believe the Castle personality Agatha has been talking to has described their locations in identical (if identically vague, “an area I can’t see”) terms. But it could be another prisoner, such as Wilhelm, or someone who hasn’t even been depicted. ⚙Zarchne 22:23, 12 February 2009 (UTC) updated 22:38, 12 February 2009 (UTC) ::Gil might save Zola from Agatha's systems squishing her, but it'd be up to Zola to save Gil from the rogue systems squishing him. Sure, he's extra sparky, but he's not going to have the hours/days/weeks necessary to move safely through the Castle on his own. --DryBrook 03:04, 13 February 2009 (UTC) Oh, it gets better (y’all are gonna lurve this one): there are the same number of letters between A'' for '''A'gatha and G'' for '''G'il (moving forward) as between Z'' for '''Z'ola and T'' for '''T'arvek (moving backward), (Which also means that A-T and Z-G are symmetric.) ⚙Zarchne 22:49, 12 February 2009 (UTC) ::Now, that's Mad! --DryBrook 03:04, 13 February 2009 (UTC) (who is looking forward to learning more about Paris and the Islands) :::Indeed. And in the GG Yahoo! group, it's being taken off into the wild blue yonder. Change Z for Zola to C, and one gets adenosine, thymine, cytosine and guanine. But I believe it shall ever by Agatha and Gil, and Agatha and Tarvek are not written in the DNA. As for even Tarvek and Zola, it seems obvious to me that had Agatha not come along, after Tarvek married Zola to establish himself as the new "Storm King", each of them would have very good reasons to want to kill the other. :::Zola might be restrained by the fear that the Knights of Jove would pursue her to the ends of the Earth and not let her reign as a widowed Heterodyne Queen, but how could Zola possibly believe that Tarvek wouldn't want to be rid of her - since for him to take a mistress, and so on, would risk revealing that Zola isn't real? Because I doubt that there's any chemistry between Tarvek and Zola - she was just hired, and doubtless feels as much or more contempt for Tarvek as Violetta does - whereas, if Zola were real, it would be like Agatha, or so everyone would think. --Quadibloc 00:52, 15 February 2009 (UTC) :::: Given that Agatha and Tarvek are the descendants of Andronicus and Euphrosynia (or one of her brothers or uncles) respectively, one could say that the DNA is one place that their pairing is written. Fortunately, GG knows nothing about DNA. ⚙Zarchne 18:27, 23 February 2009 (UTC) : We know a lot more than we did when this thread started. Agatha has to be a Heterodyne (Jaegers, Castle Heterodyne), and has to be Lucrezia's daughter (command voice and physical resemblance) or possibly a clone... is that already a mad theory? Gil can't be a Heterodyne (or the Jaegers would have noticed), and looks like a spitting image of a young Klaus (especially when he's spitting with rage). I favor the "Skifandran mother for Gil" theory, especially given , and I think Zeetha has figured it out, but that could be a red herring. It's pretty clear to me that Gil only has eyes for Agatha, but that Zola could easily provide embarrassing and/or compromising situations to set Agatha off. It's also clear that Agatha really only has eyes for Gil-- she has sympathy for Tarvek, but knows better than to trust him, and Gil is the one she gets nervous about, asking what he's been saying about her. She doesn't put anything like the energy into arguing with Tarvek that she does with Gil. Tarvek is a distraction at best-- an irritant to Gil. I do see a possible relationship between Moloch and Violetta, and Zeetha is definitely impressed with Higgs (little hearts in her word balloons?) but I wouldn't call any of those relationships a given. I think Theo and Sleipnir are "just friends," though. Not everything has to involve love triangles! Nekokami 05:44, 21 March 2009 (UTC) :: Lucrezia's clone? Not mad, merely illogical. If she were, there'd be no noticeable difference in their voices (per Vrin's comments); not only that, she's had a distinct resemblance to Bill (how did they do that?) when she's been really engaged in fun projects. She's not built like Lucrezia, and her complexion is ruddier. :: I've seen some people reaching for the 'Klaus built Gil inna petri dish' theory, but c'mon. Occam's Razor, natural gestation's a lot easier to come by. And it would devastate Mnenyver, anyway. :: Corgi 21:56, 23 March 2009 (UTC) ::: Yeah, and she really is a Heterodyne, so the clone theory doesn't make sense anyway. Nekokami 11:38, 24 March 2009 (UTC) :::: She's Lucrezia's daughter, and Castle Heterodyne recognises some factor in her blood as Heterodyne, but aren't the Mongfishes known for rather clever bioengineering? It might have been in Lucrezia's interests to ensure that any child of hers would stand to inherit the Heterodyne legacy. Story-wise, there's the seemingly inevitable Gil/Agatha romance vs the interesting possibility that Agatha herself is actually a direct heir to the Empire, putting her on equal footing with Gil as opposed to being simply the Castle-recognised ruler of Mechanicsburg. 203.206.68.21, 11:39, 22 August 2009 (UTC)